Saturday, September 13, 2008

Italians coming back ?

"There is a community which suffered an injustice, because it was expropriated of its properties and thrown out and which is asking today to go back to Libya. This is envisaged by the Treaty and it must be implemented immediately". Thus Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi from the stage of the party of Azione Giovani, answered to those asking how the Italians who resided in Libya will be protected.

I don't remember any Italians earning anything legitimately, they were no different from any other colonizers they kicked out the natives from the most fertile farm lands and out of the centers of the main cities using war and death. They only thing they have a right to is death, they were lucky to get out alive the first time around ! And any step that allows them to return, by anybody, will ultimately cost many lives on both sides.


a_akak said...

I would disagree with you PH, As I know shayabeen (older folks) who still are alive now and say that not ALL the Italian lands were raided and a big proportion was bought legitimately and another fact is that the "planting revolution" in Libya was executed by Italians and destroyed by Libyans who divided the lands into 1000m2 plots, saying all this i am personally strongly against the Italians coming back because if they do and Libya is to compensate them for all the "legitimate" land and shops and buildings, I think we will end up paying more than $ 5 Billion

Fe Aman Allah

PH said...

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you akak. The Shayabeen you know may have said that; but ask them who was the land bought from ? Bank Roma or the Italian Government ? And even if Libyans did sell to Italians directly it was done under war and while Libyans where denied citizenship to their own country ( you know Libyans were denied citizenship to their own country right ? ). How could a sale under such conditions be considered legitimate ?

"the "planting revolution" in Libya was executed by Italians and destroyed by Libyans who divided the lands into 1000m2 plots"

Planting revolution ? Libya has always been fertile and and had plenty of land the only reason Libyans didn't plant that much is because we were a small population; at the time a million and a half. The Italians took our lands and forced Libyans to work on them or face starvation under pseudo-slavery conditions so that we could feed Europe and Italy. If you read Knud Holmboe's book you will find a quote to the affect that the Italians took our land because their sons were unemployed and hungry and we had all this big country for ourselves so they needed it and we didn't deserve it, it was spite and jealousy.

To give you an example of the terms under which the Libyans had to work I can use one of my grandparents, he was told to work on the construction of a road for a petty salary ... when he refused he was jailed !

The only Libyans who got along well with the Italians were the ones who didn't fight them, the collaborators, You can read these two books that have many Italian references in them on the subject :

Fourth Shore
The Making of Modern Libya

"I think we will end up paying more than $ 5 Billion"

Well yes we are the underdogs and its all about who you are when it comes to compensations the Americans get the most then the French then the Italian ... last are us brownies ;).

To make my point clearer, I'll pose a question. I'm sure the Germans had a lot to offer the countries they occupied, even though I'm not sure they did give them anything; but assuming they did do you think they should be commended for it with all that they did to the Jews ? Do you think what they could or did offer was worth all the people they killed and that Germans should be compensated for their losses open withdrawal from their occupying countries ?

Do you think the Italians planting revolution ( which was an industrial revolution to feed their home country )was worth killing half the Libyan population ? Do you know that in the immediate aftermath of the second world war - before king Idris or Muammer -Libya was one of the poorest countries in the world that relied on selling scrap metal leftover from the two world wars as a source of income ? where was the Italian plant revolution then ? and if it was so good why weren't Libyans benefiting from it ?

on the edge said...

WOW ! I am still thinking about this anger . Colonization is NEVER good for anyone ,not the ones doing it or the ones getting it done to them .

The Italians did do murderous things to Libyans , acts of atrocity's , but they also developed Libya as well , and yes more than likely using Libyan slave labor to do it with .Towns , farms , roads were built that never would have been built if not for them .

I also know that Libyans were NOT allowed in the buildings too , or allowed to go to school past the 4th grade .My father in law was 1 such person .

That the only hospital for Libyans was the Catholic Charity Hospital that is the Shara Zoweeyha Hospital of today and not JUST ANY Libyan could go there either .

And I would like to say this , going out on a limb to do so , at least these acts were fostered on the Libyan people by a foreign occupying government .

PH said...

on the edge :

You've outdone yourself in your diplomacy to such an extent that I don't know what your advocating ? I would really appreciate it if you could clarify your point, especially the last one :

"And I would like to say this , going out on a limb to do so , at least these acts were fostered on the Libyan people by a foreign occupying government ."

Are you saying that, you think that the Italian government is somehow better than the current one ? and since it is we should be grateful to them because they were at least foreign ?

PH said...

And you should revise your statement on development and ignore what you hear from Italians or from Old Libyan men who worked for them, as they only praise the Italians to justify their treason. I also should remind you that Libya is bigger than just the West of Libya so if you are going to stick to your statements you should at least change 'Libya' to 'Western Libya' .

Highlander said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Highlander said...

Fal Allah wa la falek man I hope we never see their faces again !

( sorry I deleted the comment above because of a typo)